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Post by Erik on Nov 24, 2010 8:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by Derrick on Dec 16, 2010 13:48:36 GMT -5
One thing I really like when reading a work of fiction whether it's fan or original: when it sparks ideas and such in my own head. Take the first issue of Brent Lambert's A.R.M.O.R. series: During a discussion between Gaia and Portal, the topic of letting the general public know about the existence of alternate Earths comes up. Gaia's all for it but Portal, in a wonderfully written bit of dialog explains why it would be such a nightmare. You think immigrations a problem now? What would happen if people learned of the existence of an Earth that's a planetary Garden of Eden and millions demanded to be allowed to go there?
That started me to think: Do science fiction fans on Earth 792 demand to be allowed to go live on the Shi'ar Homeworld? Are there people who want to emigrate to Latveria, Wakanda, The Savage Land or Attilan?
But even more than making me think...Brent forces me to pay attention to what I'm reading. There's some fan fiction series I can skim through in 10 minutes while having a movie on in the background and music playing while also writing and not miss a thing, that's how formulaic and bare bones it is. But A.R.M.O.R. isn't like that. It demands that I pay full attention to it and I like that. Good fiction is supposed to demand that from a reader. If your attention has time to wander away from what you’re reading then a writer simply hasn’t done his job of grabbing the reader by the throat with both hands and make him incapable of doing anything else but reading the story in front of him.
A.R.M.O.R. reminds me a lot of Mark Bousquet’s magnificent “All God’s Children” currently being hosted over at Marvel Omega. Both have large casts of characters, most of them descendants/alternate versions of familiar characters. But Brent quickly establishes that these aren’t merely copies or duplicates of characters I’ve been reading about for years. These are fresh characters and that brings a nice level of suspense because since I don’t know anything about them I had no idea of where they were going or what they were going to do.
A.R.M.O.R. is less of a superhero series and more of an epic science fantasy saga played out over multiple Earths which is okay by me. There’s more political in-fighting than thrown punches in the first five of issues but again, that’s okay. Brent seems content to let his imagination run absolutely wild and indeed, the sheer imaginative power he displays in his description, the variety of settings and the informatively clever interplay between the characters does most of the work. There’s a good reason for that. There’s an awful lot that happens ‘off screen’
I don’t know if that’s a conscious decision on Brent’s part as he suffered a lot of criticism during his M2K run on AVENGERS when he was charged with relying way too heavily on action. A.R.M.O.R. is almost exactly the opposite. At least in the first five issues. I get the distinct impression that Brent is winding up to throw a fastball of really hot action issues and I for one appreciate the time he’s taking to set up his characters properly so that when the coming big battle does take place, we’re properly invested in these people.
A.R.M.O.R. certainly isn’t for those who want a quick adrenaline action fix in their fan fiction but it most certainly is a well-written, character driven sci-fi epic so far and one of the better Marvel Anthology titles. If you’re not reading it already, you need to get started.
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Post by Erik on Dec 16, 2010 15:38:58 GMT -5
One of the things I've always wondered about science fiction fans of these comic Earth's is: what do things like Star Trek or Babylon 5 mean to these people who live in a universe where the Shi'Ar and the Kree and the Skrulls and other things are out there? Do the general public know that these aliens exist? Are they aware of the technology these species use? How would the Romulan's or the Klingon's exist and stack up compared to the real things? Would the Shi'Ar be used in the show? Does the Enterprise's technology get affected so it can travel between galaxy's? In the comic Gladiator punched the Enterprise's shields and another punch would've knocked them right out. There've been other X-Men crossovers with TNG also.
--As I thought of it: Star Wars and Star Trek (TOS) would be valid since in the '60s and '70s would likely predate most of what we know today to be true. As might other things that came out before the late late '80s.
Does a TV show like Stargate even exist with the ACTUAL Gods that the Goa'uld portray actually exist? How would you portray a God like Apophis or Ra or Anubis? Hell, the Asgard as the little gray aliens are totally screwed when Thor and the Asgard ARE common knowledge. Thor the God vs Thor the alien...Would Thor take that twist on his own mythology nice? I guess it depends on common knowledge versus what we are aware of as people from the outside looking in.
Hell, is Sci-Fi something completely different for Earth 792? Would Horror and Supernatural, things that are easier to have wiggle room with, be larger because of the wealth of actual Gods and Aliens that exist to undercut Sci-Fi?
...Brent and I have discussed things like a Witness Protection Program where people are transfered from one Earth to an Earth where their counterpart has been killed or never has existed to take over their role here. It could be a neat twist on things like resurrections when we believe a character was brought back from the dead, but turns out to be an alternate reality counterpart who's acting the role of who his counterpart used to be when alive. We just have to figure out some things that would warrant A.R.M.O.R. to take one person and transfer them across the barriers? I think we've even talked about Immigration too. But I think - in my mind - that applied more to S.W.O.R.D. than to A.R.M.O.R. where aliens - kinda like in MiB - stop at the Peak (which acts like a galactic Ellis Island) and either immigrate here or are here to visit and are getting their intergalactic Passport stamped.
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Post by Derrick on Dec 16, 2010 16:45:17 GMT -5
Erik, your post put me in mind of a conversation that crops up between myself a a few of my friends. Some of them are of the opinion that because aliens and superheroes exist in the Marvel Universe there would be no science fiction TV shows/movies or comic books. To me that's like saying because police officers and mercenaries exist in our world there would be no "Adam-12" or "The A-Team." Matter of fact, I think that in the Marvel Universe science fiction and superheroes would probably be the MAIN genre on TV and movies.
The idea of an Interdimensional Witness Protection Program tickles me to no end.
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Post by Erik on Dec 16, 2010 18:25:17 GMT -5
Well, the Interdimensional Witness Protection Program is absolutely up for grabs to anybody who wants to coordinate something through Brent. I'm sure - as I talk for him - it'd be a neat way to tie his title into other books in a very discrete fashion. Say, for AVENGERS, that Jack of Hearts is actually from another universe but nobody else knows it...and when he heads back to his Zero Chamber there's an A.R.M.O.R. agent waiting for him to check on his progress and such? The other cool thing to keep in mind, Derrick, is that Bookey, Glaser and Brent have all coordinated several plot points between each other that links all of the fanfic sites together - well, at least those three - as other universes. Very little would stop you from having AV AVENGERS and MA KA-ZAR having some sort of tie through AV's Excalibur and MA's A.R.M.O.R. - as long as it's obviously within reason. Or Tomorrow Man after he's done with Ka-Zar heads on over to the AV'verse to screw with the Avengers through the example set by Excalibur and A.R.M.O.R.
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Post by Erik on Dec 17, 2010 6:08:56 GMT -5
Erik, your post put me in mind of a conversation that crops up between myself a a few of my friends. Some of them are of the opinion that because aliens and superheroes exist in the Marvel Universe there would be no science fiction TV shows/movies or comic books. To me that's like saying because police officers and mercenaries exist in our world there would be no "Adam-12" or "The A-Team." Matter of fact, I think that in the Marvel Universe science fiction and superheroes would probably be the MAIN genre on TV and movies. I wonder what their news would be like? Would certain stories read like they came right out of a Sci Fi novel? Or a Twilight Zone episode? The transitions must be something to marvel when they jump from Ultron smashing a city to pieces to a YouTube clip of a puppy playing the keyboard. Or from an honest to God haunting and demon raising to who's the new broad Tony Stark is dating and does this girl like fig newton's? It's why I can't wait for Ed to launch DEADZONE because it'll tackle another topic that we were talking about: the Ghost Hunting shows. In the real world these shows are wildly popular, showing people charging into broken down prisons and everyday houses talking to thin air hoping to get responses from entities that are debateable at best in their existance. But in the comic world ghosts ARE REAL. There's no debating that hauntings exist, that demons and possessions exist. And, frankly, with guys walking around like a Hellstorm or a Thor why would you doubt otherwise if you've never experienced this phenomonon personally? So, how would these shows be when the ghosts they're chasing ARE real and the content you're watching IS real? Does the drama of the show amp up when the host of the show feels something touch his shoulder? Or when an entity actually DOES show itself clearly for the camera's and hunters to see? ... Damnit, Ed....DEADZONE!!!!
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Post by brentlambert on Dec 17, 2010 11:31:02 GMT -5
One thing I really like when reading a work of fiction whether it's fan or original: when it sparks ideas and such in my own head. Take the first issue of Brent Lambert's A.R.M.O.R. series: During a discussion between Gaia and Portal, the topic of letting the general public know about the existence of alternate Earths comes up. Gaia's all for it but Portal, in a wonderfully written bit of dialog explains why it would be such a nightmare. You think immigrations a problem now? What would happen if people learned of the existence of an Earth that's a planetary Garden of Eden and millions demanded to be allowed to go there? That started me to think: Do science fiction fans on Earth 792 demand to be allowed to go live on the Shi'ar Homeworld? Are there people who want to emigrate to Latveria, Wakanda, The Savage Land or Attilan? But even more than making me think...Brent forces me to pay attention to what I'm reading. There's some fan fiction series I can skim through in 10 minutes while having a movie on in the background and music playing while also writing and not miss a thing, that's how formulaic and bare bones it is. But A.R.M.O.R. isn't like that. It demands that I pay full attention to it and I like that. Good fiction is supposed to demand that from a reader. If your attention has time to wander away from what you’re reading then a writer simply hasn’t done his job of grabbing the reader by the throat with both hands and make him incapable of doing anything else but reading the story in front of him. A.R.M.O.R. reminds me a lot of Mark Bousquet’s magnificent “All God’s Children” currently being hosted over at Marvel Omega. Both have large casts of characters, most of them descendants/alternate versions of familiar characters. But Brent quickly establishes that these aren’t merely copies or duplicates of characters I’ve been reading about for years. These are fresh characters and that brings a nice level of suspense because since I don’t know anything about them I had no idea of where they were going or what they were going to do. A.R.M.O.R. is less of a superhero series and more of an epic science fantasy saga played out over multiple Earths which is okay by me. There’s more political in-fighting than thrown punches in the first five of issues but again, that’s okay. Brent seems content to let his imagination run absolutely wild and indeed, the sheer imaginative power he displays in his description, the variety of settings and the informatively clever interplay between the characters does most of the work. There’s a good reason for that. There’s an awful lot that happens ‘off screen’ I don’t know if that’s a conscious decision on Brent’s part as he suffered a lot of criticism during his M2K run on AVENGERS when he was charged with relying way too heavily on action. A.R.M.O.R. is almost exactly the opposite. At least in the first five issues. I get the distinct impression that Brent is winding up to throw a fastball of really hot action issues and I for one appreciate the time he’s taking to set up his characters properly so that when the coming big battle does take place, we’re properly invested in these people. A.R.M.O.R. certainly isn’t for those who want a quick adrenaline action fix in their fan fiction but it most certainly is a well-written, character driven sci-fi epic so far and one of the better Marvel Anthology titles. If you’re not reading it already, you need to get started. Derrick you have really thrown some good compliments my way man and I honestly am kind of floating on Cloud Nine right about now. As for the Portal comment to Gaia, that was just me thinking on a real world level to some extent. When I'm writing I try to sometimes imagine myself as a regular citizen in the Marvel Universe. How would we all act if we were deposited into this wild, crazy universe? And despite what Wikileaks is making people think, secrets are not evil. They are sometimes necessary and absolutely vital to maintaining some degree of order. I wanted Portal to point that out.
I have had some pretty good writing influences from the fanfic world (you among them) and in the "real" world. So I think that has helped my style evolve from the early M2K days that you mentioned. I feel like I understand a bit better what makes a story work and like you said, you have to make the reader invested in what you're doing and the characters you're writing. I'm glad I was able to do that for you. It's funny you bring up the M2K AVENGERS because I was looking over it just yesterday and thinking about how what I was doing there could have been alot of fun if I had just slowed down and let the "beat build".
The AGC comparison literally floored me man. That remains probably my favorite fanfic series of all time and having A.R.M.O.R. compared to it is such a gigantic compliment for me. I wasn't intentionally trying to emulate the series, but I'm sure it was in the back of my subconcious somewhere.
This is definately a sci-fi fantasy epic and alot of people have gotten wide-eyed when I tell them that this first arc is probably going to stretch to 20 issues. I was a bit self-conscious about the length at first, but I made the decision to not cut corners and write this story to the fullest. I'm going to give it everything it deserves and if it takes 20 issues then so be it.
A.R.M.O.R. is really a dream title for me because I can write absolutely any character I want and really put any spin on it that I want.
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Post by brentlambert on Dec 17, 2010 11:38:32 GMT -5
One of the things I've always wondered about science fiction fans of these comic Earth's is: what do things like Star Trek or Babylon 5 mean to these people who live in a universe where the Shi'Ar and the Kree and the Skrulls and other things are out there? Do the general public know that these aliens exist? Are they aware of the technology these species use? How would the Romulan's or the Klingon's exist and stack up compared to the real things? Would the Shi'Ar be used in the show? Does the Enterprise's technology get affected so it can travel between galaxy's? In the comic Gladiator punched the Enterprise's shields and another punch would've knocked them right out. There've been other X-Men crossovers with TNG also. --As I thought of it: Star Wars and Star Trek (TOS) would be valid since in the '60s and '70s would likely predate most of what we know today to be true. As might other things that came out before the late late '80s. Does a TV show like Stargate even exist with the ACTUAL Gods that the Goa'uld portray actually exist? How would you portray a God like Apophis or Ra or Anubis? Hell, the Asgard as the little gray aliens are totally screwed when Thor and the Asgard ARE common knowledge. Thor the God vs Thor the alien...Would Thor take that twist on his own mythology nice? I guess it depends on common knowledge versus what we are aware of as people from the outside looking in. Hell, is Sci-Fi something completely different for Earth 792? Would Horror and Supernatural, things that are easier to have wiggle room with, be larger because of the wealth of actual Gods and Aliens that exist to undercut Sci-Fi? ...Brent and I have discussed things like a Witness Protection Program where people are transfered from one Earth to an Earth where their counterpart has been killed or never has existed to take over their role here. It could be a neat twist on things like resurrections when we believe a character was brought back from the dead, but turns out to be an alternate reality counterpart who's acting the role of who his counterpart used to be when alive. We just have to figure out some things that would warrant A.R.M.O.R. to take one person and transfer them across the barriers? I think we've even talked about Immigration too. But I think - in my mind - that applied more to S.W.O.R.D. than to A.R.M.O.R. where aliens - kinda like in MiB - stop at the Peak (which acts like a galactic Ellis Island) and either immigrate here or are here to visit and are getting their intergalactic Passport stamped. Funny that you mention that because I'm going to have these worlds called "border" worlds. Dimensions that lay on the line of different multiverses and have blended elements in them. Just as an example, a world where The Romulans and Shi'ar are at war. In fact, I think I might actually do that The Witness Protection Program will be quite interesting and Erik did a pretty good job of describing it. It's something that kind of grew out the Agent Exchange Program that Mindbender is a part of since he's from an alternate Earth. I want to make A.R.M.O.R. as legitimate an organization as possible. Its like the CIA/FBI and every other alphabet organization mixed in with alternate realities. That's my approach to it.
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Post by brentlambert on Dec 17, 2010 11:40:50 GMT -5
Erik, your post put me in mind of a conversation that crops up between myself a a few of my friends. Some of them are of the opinion that because aliens and superheroes exist in the Marvel Universe there would be no science fiction TV shows/movies or comic books. To me that's like saying because police officers and mercenaries exist in our world there would be no "Adam-12" or "The A-Team." Matter of fact, I think that in the Marvel Universe science fiction and superheroes would probably be the MAIN genre on TV and movies. The idea of an Interdimensional Witness Protection Program tickles me to no end. I think you hit on a good point Derrick. Look at how many action movies we have in existence about clandestine groups, mercenaries, government organizations etc. Super-Hero shows should be the reality shows of our universe.
I'm glad the Witness Protection program catches your fancy. On the flip side, A.R.M.O.R. will have to deal with illegal immigration as well.
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Post by brentlambert on Dec 17, 2010 11:42:48 GMT -5
Well, the Interdimensional Witness Protection Program is absolutely up for grabs to anybody who wants to coordinate something through Brent. I'm sure - as I talk for him - it'd be a neat way to tie his title into other books in a very discrete fashion. Say, for AVENGERS, that Jack of Hearts is actually from another universe but nobody else knows it...and when he heads back to his Zero Chamber there's an A.R.M.O.R. agent waiting for him to check on his progress and such? The other cool thing to keep in mind, Derrick, is that Bookey, Glaser and Brent have all coordinated several plot points between each other that links all of the fanfic sites together - well, at least those three - as other universes. Very little would stop you from having AV AVENGERS and MA KA-ZAR having some sort of tie through AV's Excalibur and MA's A.R.M.O.R. - as long as it's obviously within reason. Or Tomorrow Man after he's done with Ka-Zar heads on over to the AV'verse to screw with the Avengers through the example set by Excalibur and A.R.M.O.R. I am loving the coordination that exists between Doug, Dale, and myself. Its nothing overt, but a simple acknowledgement of each other's existence and the potential to blend things together if we want to. I don't think anything like it has ever really happened between fanfic sties like this.
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Post by Derrick on Dec 17, 2010 20:10:38 GMT -5
Well, the Interdimensional Witness Protection Program is absolutely up for grabs to anybody who wants to coordinate something through Brent. I'm sure - as I talk for him - it'd be a neat way to tie his title into other books in a very discrete fashion. Say, for AVENGERS, that Jack of Hearts is actually from another universe but nobody else knows it...and when he heads back to his Zero Chamber there's an A.R.M.O.R. agent waiting for him to check on his progress and such? The other cool thing to keep in mind, Derrick, is that Bookey, Glaser and Brent have all coordinated several plot points between each other that links all of the fanfic sites together - well, at least those three - as other universes. Very little would stop you from having AV AVENGERS and MA KA-ZAR having some sort of tie through AV's Excalibur and MA's A.R.M.O.R. - as long as it's obviously within reason. Or Tomorrow Man after he's done with Ka-Zar heads on over to the AV'verse to screw with the Avengers through the example set by Excalibur and A.R.M.O.R. I am loving the coordination that exists between Doug, Dale, and myself. Its nothing overt, but a simple acknowledgement of each other's existence and the potential to blend things together if we want to. I don't think anything like it has ever really happened between fanfic sties like this. I quite agree. Erik's given me an idea that I've been taking notes on: once Zaarko is finished over here, I'm thinking of bringing him to the AV Universe to raise hell with The Avengers then have him travel to the Marvel Omega Universe to mess around with either The Hulk or The Human Torch.
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Post by stormrage on Nov 16, 2011 0:03:14 GMT -5
So you've really written a big story here man? Did you intend for it to start off that way or did it kind of just grow on its own? I'm curious how the heck you're gonna top this when you're done.
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Post by brentlambert on Nov 19, 2011 20:43:53 GMT -5
So you've really written a big story here man? Did you intend for it to start off that way or did it kind of just grow on its own? I'm curious how the heck you're gonna top this when you're done. It really more or less grew on its own just because I was trying to stay within a certain issue length. Then the story just kept getting bigger and bigger lol. Only drawback of a story this big, is that it's been a bit harder for me to draw the title into the larger MA scene. My next story will hopefully change that
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Post by stormrage on Nov 29, 2011 4:08:10 GMT -5
So you've really written a big story here man? Did you intend for it to start off that way or did it kind of just grow on its own? I'm curious how the heck you're gonna top this when you're done. It really more or less grew on its own just because I was trying to stay within a certain issue length. Then the story just kept getting bigger and bigger lol. Only drawback of a story this big, is that it's been a bit harder for me to draw the title into the larger MA scene. My next story will hopefully change that Yea that's one thing I was wondering about. Like an organization such as ARMOR has to have its fingers in alot of pies in its hope dimension to keep up its directive. I could see them very much being like the g-men of so many conspiracy theories. These guys would have to interact with alot of people to do their duties. You gonna explain how so many alternate characters have managed to slip into the universe with ARMOR around?
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Post by brentlambert on Dec 1, 2011 9:43:58 GMT -5
It really more or less grew on its own just because I was trying to stay within a certain issue length. Then the story just kept getting bigger and bigger lol. Only drawback of a story this big, is that it's been a bit harder for me to draw the title into the larger MA scene. My next story will hopefully change that Yea that's one thing I was wondering about. Like an organization such as ARMOR has to have its fingers in alot of pies in its hope dimension to keep up its directive. I could see them very much being like the g-men of so many conspiracy theories. These guys would have to interact with alot of people to do their duties. You gonna explain how so many alternate characters have managed to slip into the universe with ARMOR around? You kind of hit the nail on the head with some of the stuff I want to do with ARMOR. I definately want them to be the kind of organization that spooks other organizations. These guys are dealing with things that are way beyond the scope of normal law enforcement agencies. So they def. have their influence in alot of things.
And i def. have an explanation for all the alternate reality characters you see running around. I hope by the time I get to it that it'll seem plausible enough.
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